Alexandra Shulman, the former editor of British Vogue who was at the helm for 25 years, was on the receiving end of some cringeworthy comments about women's fashion from a BBC Radio 4 presenter this morning. Angry listeners accused John Humphrys, who was interviewing Shulman on the Today Programme, of "mansplaining" the industry to her and being "out of his depth".
The veteran presenter, who has come under fire numerous times for his combative interview style, was talking to Shulman about body image and the future of women's fashion and ended up making numerous misguided remarks in the process. He claimed there weren't many "reasonably cosy or comfortably shaped" bodies on the cover of Vogue (whatever that means) and blamed the magazine and fashion industry for promoting stick-thinness and "excruciating stilettos".
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On body image, Humphrys said: "60 years ago, the hourglass figure was desirable, now you want to be skinny as a rake." Shulman's response was as shrewd and well-informed as you might expect. She explained to him the industry's increasing embrace of women who are "not that skinny" and pointed out the most obvious examples.
"No, not sure that's entirely true actually...Rihanna, Beyonce, Kim Kardashian, they're not that skinny," she said. "Skinny is not necessarily what people want to be now. There has been a change in the last decade about that."
On the subject of stilettos, Humphrys said "women feel they have to wear very high heels and they must be excruciating," which, while this is of course often true, is no longer as true as it once was. Shulman politely highlighted the years-long dominance of flat shoes in fashion.
"I do not agree with that at all, women do not have to wear high heels...wearing a heel gives you a completely different feel about your body...in my case it makes me feel in control rather than slopping around in a pair of slippers," she said.
Many listeners took to Twitter to express their annoyance at hearing a doyenne of fashion having to respond to Humphrys' "off base" views.
Why do @BBCr4today bother getting an expert when John Humphrys apparently knows everything there it to know about fashion #Mansplaining
— Veronica Kelsey (@VeronicaKelsey) August 31, 2017
John Humphrys on the Today Show mansplaining how teenage girls are influenced by fashion right now - so off base it hurts. #r4today
— Emily Burt (@EmilyPBurt) August 31, 2017
Others criticised him for being misinformed.
How dare the ex editor of Vogue come on #r4today and constantly contradict renowned fashion expert John Humphrys.
— Gary Pepworth (@garypepworth) August 31, 2017
I think John Humphrys is drastically under-informed for this interview on fashion, gender, and style. #r4today
— Emma Ritch (@EmmaRitch) August 31, 2017
Humphrys doing an interview on women, fashion and body image is an excruciating listen. He's not exploring but declaiming. #r4today
— Clive Mitchell (@clivemitchell1) August 31, 2017
#r4today Might as well let Humphrys pontificate on fashion - he knows as much about it as anything else. Utterly out of his depth - always!
— Darren bailey (@crowebroke) August 31, 2017
Humphrys did, however make the valid point that the range of women featured on Vogue's cover during her tenure could have been more diverse. "We don't see reasonably cosy or comfortably shaped women" on the cover, he said, although his awkward phrasing left a lot to be desired.
"I don't know that that's necessarily true, we had a mixture... under my editorship we had quite a range," she responded, citing Adele and, confusingly, the Duchess of Cambridge as examples.
Shulman was also quizzed about her recent Instagram bikini selfie, which went viral and sparked a conversation about ageism and body image. She said she was "naive" to have posted it without realising the furore it would cause, adding: "It never entered my head that the fact I was wearing a bikini was going to be remarkable."